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Iraq Gunz
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Featured by Frost

NLR is the most misunderstood rule, by player and admin, alike. I hope to both enlighten you and gauge the average comprehension of the rule with, first, a short explanation on what purpose the rule serves, and second with a quiz, consisting of a situation that you must answer "yes" or "no" to, answering the question: "Does the NLR apply to this situation?" None of the answers will have stipulations. Yes, or no. PM me your answers, and I'll send your results back. EDIT: Along with "yes" or "no," include the reasoning for your decision. No guessing! :P

First, the explanation for the New Life Rule.

As the name of the rule suggests, once you die, you must assume a new life. That means you forget everything you learned and knew in your past life, except for things such as where your house is, who you are, what your job is (unless you are the victim of a bounty), et cetera. Having a new life means you do not use any other knowledge from your previous life. If you are killed, you do not know who killed you. You cannot seek revenge by any means. (Note that being arrested or changing your job does not count as a new life)

Now, the obvious question is "if I'm killed in my house, why can't I go back to it?" This question is one of the major reasons we have the NLR in the first place. The answer is "to give whomever is robbing you a fighting chance." This is the most defined form of the rule:
MotD wrote:
After you die, you are not allowed to return to the place of your death (or anywhere near it) for at least THREE minutes. This gives gangsters a chance to steal your stuff"


This means NLR does not apply to people who are RDMed, people who suicided, a cop who is killed and then sees the same criminal run by shooting at other cops (as long as the cop didn't go looking for the criminal), and many other situations. The rule of thumb is: if you are using current-life information, it is not breaking NLR.

NLR applies to police and gangster raids, as well. If you are killed while performing the raid, you may not return for 3 minutes. After those 3 minutes, you must be informed, by eyes or by RP chat (group chat, for example), that there is a raid going on. Even if you are told about the raid 1 minute after respawning, you may not take part.

The next post will have the actual quiz.


Last edited by Frost on Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:28 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Iraq Gunz
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:12 pm 
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EDIT: I have clarified details in scenarios 8 and 12

NLR Quiz

Scenario One
You are a courier. You are delivering a package when you are killed by a bounty hunter. Some time later, you are a gun dealer, and the person who was once the bounty hunter is now a cop, and he is asking for a shipment of FAMAS. You refuse to sell to him, and say "no, because you killed me."
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Two
You are a bounty hunter. You are arrested while trying to assassinate a cop. As soon as your sentence is up, you grab a pistol from your stash and kill the same cop.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Three
You are killed by a bounty hunter and automatically demoted to citizen. You put a bounty on the bounty hunter who killed you.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Four
You are a gun dealer. You are selling illegal weapons. You are raided by police, but fend them all off. Less than three minutes later, a group of gangsters raids you. One of the gangsters was a cop in the police raid.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Five
You are a CP Sniper watching a raid take place at the yellow warehouse. All the police die, so you say, in group chat, "there are gangsters with illegal weapons at the yellow warehouse." All the cops return to the yellow warehouse immediately.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Six
You are a cop. A gangster is made wanted for having an illegal weapon out in public. The gangster kills you while you are chasing him past the park area. You respawn and see him run by the fountain, so you give chase once again.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Seven
You are a cop. A gangster is made wanted for having an illegal weapon out in public. The gangster kills you while you are chasing him past the park area. You respawn and go toward the yellow warehouse. You see him run into the yellow warehouse, so you give chase once again.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Eight
You are a banker. Gangsters raid your apartment and kill you in the process. You wait outside your apartment and watch them run outside with your money printers. You then use /cr to alert the police.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Nine
You are a cop. You are killed by gangsters raiding the police station. You hear them picking the lock, so you start to warn the police with group chat, but are killed before you can finish the message. You send the warning while at the spawn area.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Ten
You are a gun dealer. You are killed by a rival gun dealer while you are in your shop. You return to your shop immediately.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Eleven
You are a cop. You are killed by gangsters raiding the police station with the intention of holding the mayor hostage. The mayor uses /cr to alert the police that he has been taken hostage, and you rush to the mayor's office to save him.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Scenario Twelve
You are a blue gangster buying a gun. You are killed by a single red gangster, who then leaves. You return to the same store to buy a gun, again.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Last edited by Gunz on Sun May 01, 2011 1:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Iraq Gunz
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Results:
mod7788: 8/12
Teh Northy: 7/12
Ultra Lulz: 8/12
Cherry: 11/12
Zeaphyre: 9/12
Wooden Trout: 7/12
Battlefield1113: 8/12
Pink: 11/12 (she isn't even a GMod admin)
Foxtrot: 8.5/12
Dellkan: 9.5/12
Wolfie: 5.5/12
Game Zombie: 5/12
Mo Lester: 5/12
beastlyyyy: 7.5/12
Yugoslavia_1: 8.5/12
Emo Panda: 7.5/12 (Doesn't play GMod)
Pallal: 10/12
Acewolf: 9/12


Last edited by Gunz on Mon May 02, 2011 6:30 pm, edited 18 times in total.


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Canada Rorin Fox
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:35 pm 
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-snip-

PM Gunz. Don't post.



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United States Wooden Trout
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:38 pm 
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Rorin Cabeet wrote:
-snipped-


Gunz wrote:
PM me your answers, and I'll send your results back. EDIT: Along with "yes" or "no," include the reasoning for your decision. No guessing!


Please read things before posting.


Last edited by Wooden Trout on Sun May 01, 2011 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Iraq Gunz
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:29 pm 
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I've noticed a trend. Experienced admins are believing they are above reading my first post, and this is proven by 1) their lower scores, 2) that I've gotten three tests PMed to me without reasoning for yes or no provided, and 3) it's been admitted to me that a person didn't read the first post, because they thought it would be easy. Do you think Cherry and Pink have the experience in dealing with the RP rules as most level 4s do? They don't. They scored well because they read my explanation on my rule and comprehended what I wrote.

If NLR was widely-understood, I wouldn't have felt the need to create this thread at all. I am not using this thread so I can judge you all. This thread is for your benefit. What we need is a solid, clear definition of what NLR is, and that's not going to go anywhere if you insist on clinging to your egos and thinking you know best.

Forget everything you thought you knew prior to reading my first post, and read it again. If you disagree with any part of it, bring it up with me. So far, no one has.

You might ask what makes me fit to define the rule this way. It's simple: No one has sat down and deliberated through every stipulation of the rule as I have.

I'm kind of disappointed.

O.P. wrote:
NLR is the most misunderstood rule, by player and admin, alike. I hope to both enlighten you and gauge the average comprehension of the rule



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Iraq Gunz
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:10 pm 
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The Answers

1: This is breaking NLR. You are refusing to sell because of what happened in a previous life. This is classified as "using previous-life knowledge."

2: This is not breaking NLR. You never died, and are thus you are free to collect the bounty on the cop.

3: This is breaking NLR. While you may have a legitimate reason for putting the bounty, it is almost invariably going to be to get revenge.

4: This is not breaking NLR. It's probably no secret that you had shipments (illegal weapons are generally weapons that come in shipments). Because of this, and because the ex-cop is there with another group of people and a legitimate RP reason, this is okay.

5: This is breaking NLR. Cops and gangsters are not allowed to return to a raid within three minutes of their death. This is to prevent an observer from calling reinforcements indefinitely.

6: This is not breaking NLR. If you see a wanted man run by you, you are allowed to give chase. It is your job.

7: This is breaking NLR. Although you saw the wanted man again, you intentionally went toward the last area you knew he was in, thus using previous-life knowledge.

8: This is breaking NLR. You are using previous-life knowledge to catch the gangsters in the act. If you are being robbed or raided, stay away from your place of death, especially your home, for three minutes.

9: This is breaking NLR. You didn't get to finish the warning, so get over it. Sending the warning at spawn is using previous-life knowledge.

10: This is not breaking NLR. Even if the gun dealer had a really good reason to kill you, he's not allowed to raid or rob you. Since you are not being raided or robbed, you can return as soon as you like. You cannot, however, exact revenge on the gun dealer if you see him in your store.

11: This is breaking NLR. Since the mayor is being raided by gangsters, police may not return to the raid for three minutes, regardless of what the mayor says. The mayor (and mob boss) cannot order you to break server rules.

12: This is not breaking NLR. The red gangster didn't intend on raiding the shop, and you were simply a victim of opportunity. You may return to the shop to buy your weapon at any time.


I hope you all learned something from this. In the interest of fairness, I had to alter the way I enforce it, too. I wouldn't have called 5 or 11 breaking NLR before I thought about it.



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United States Hat
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:27 pm 
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Ah, I see the mistakes I made in the quiz. The whole raid thing completely slipped my mind.



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Canada Winter
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Hello Gunz...

You may dislike myself saying this but I disagree with you for scenario ten.

Short and sweet question it may be, but I don't consider that not to break NLR. Simply, you were not getting raided. You were RDMed for some stupid reason that will remain unknown.

The gun dealer DID infact kill you, he broke a rule initating your death. Anyways, you are still starting a new life. I personally believe regardless if a person made the initial mistake, you still shouldn't be able to go back. They still should be taken care of for RDMing. I believe two wrongs do not make a right. Just because that one dealer breaks a rule, I don't think you should as well.

Im sorry Gunz, but this is my opinion. Overall, great work, smart and well done. Put together nicely too.

-- See you in the wind Brother.


Last edited by Winter on Tue May 03, 2011 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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United States Battlefield1113
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:15 pm 
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Hurburt wrote:
Hello Gunz...

You may dislike myself saying this but I disagree with you for scenario ten.

Short and sweet question it may be, but I don't consider that not to break NLR. Simply, you were not getting raided. You were RDMed for some stupid reason that will remain unknown.

The gun dealer DID infact kill you, he broke a rule initating your death. Anyways, you are still starting a new life. I personally believe regardless if a person made the initial mistake, you still shouldn't be able to go back. They still should be taken care of for RDMing. I believe two wrongs do not make a right. Just because that one dealer breaks a rule, I don't think you should as well.

Im sorry Gunz, but this is my opinion. Overall, great work, smart and well done. Put together nicely too.

-- See you in the wind Brother.


First of all, who even are you? I don't think I've ever seen you in-game.

Secondly, I don't see your reasoning. If you're rdmed why should you be punished by not being able to go back to your store? The person who should be punished is the rdmer. Not the victim. So please, give me a reason(s) why the victim should be punished as well.



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Norway Dellkan
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:33 am 
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Battlefield1113 wrote:
First of all, who even are you? I don't think I've ever seen you in-game.

Secondly, I don't see your reasoning. If you're rdmed why should you be punished by not being able to go back to your store? The person who should be punished is the rdmer. Not the victim. So please, give me a reason(s) why the victim should be punished as well.


Focus on the arguments he presents, not how well known or not he is, battle. He did not present his disagreement as an insult to Gunz, thus should not be treated as such either.

I agree with Hurburt, on the base merit that 80% of RDM accusations are false. By following this logic, I could simply proclaim every death as RDM, followed by breaking NLR.

Here is how I answered the same question:

Gunz wrote:
Scenario Ten
You are a gun dealer. You are killed by a rival gun dealer while you are in your shop. You return to your shop immediately.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Yes. However, you were also RDM'd. Alert an admin, and respect NLR while you wait for your case to be handled. As unlikely as it is, there could be some valid reason for the kill, thus, don't try to fix or remedy the situation yourself, have an admin look into it. In general, don't fix one problem with another.


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United States Battlefield1113
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:52 am 
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Dellkan wrote:
Battlefield1113 wrote:
First of all, who even are you? I don't think I've ever seen you in-game.

Secondly, I don't see your reasoning. If you're rdmed why should you be punished by not being able to go back to your store? The person who should be punished is the rdmer. Not the victim. So please, give me a reason(s) why the victim should be punished as well.


Focus on the arguments he presents, not how well known or not he is, battle. He did not present his disagreement as an insult to Gunz, thus should not be treated as such either.

I agree with Hurburt, on the base merit that 80% of RDM accusations are false. By following this logic, I could simply proclaim every death as RDM, followed by breaking NLR.

Here is how I answered the same question:

Gunz wrote:
Scenario Ten
You are a gun dealer. You are killed by a rival gun dealer while you are in your shop. You return to your shop immediately.
Is this breaking NLR? _


Yes. However, you were also RDM'd. Alert an admin, and respect NLR while you wait for your case to be handled. As unlikely as it is, there could be some valid reason for the kill, thus, don't try to fix or remedy the situation yourself, have an admin look into it. In general, don't fix one problem with another.


But, a fellow gun dealer has no right to RDM another gun dealer. In which case, it should never, not(fuck yeah double negative) be RDM. I'm not trying to insult Hurburt, nor did I view his post to be an insult towards Gunz. I just honestly don't see the reasoning. As an admin knowing that a gangsters killed a gun dealer to rob him is not rdming. However unless gundealer A is going on a rampage and gun dealer B kills him for the sake of the server, in which case everyone would be aware, it will pretty much always be RDM(Unless it's the above scenario).



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Canada Winter
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:48 am 
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Battle, I see your reasoning. I really do.

I am not insulted in anyway, shape or form. I just feel that it is important to never break the NLR rule, regardless of the act that occurred. In-fact in the "Did you know" thing while loading the server, one of them is "Never, EVER break the NLR rule."



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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:05 pm 
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I have seen lot's of NLR breaking, and I have to admit I've broke it a couple times myself in my 3 days 15 hours or-so playtime. However, even though all of you will be disappointed in me saying this, and annoyed. (Note that I DID read Gunz's post.) I just wanted to CLARIFY, that no matter where, when, how, or who (unless it was RDM) killed you, you cannot return to your place of death, even if it wasn't a raid, for 3 minutes. Just making sure. I don't plan on breaking NLR and I don't want to be in the situation where I have no idea whether myself or someone else did. Also, If you placed a bounty on someone, stole his job, then he placed a bounty on you and stole his job back. Is that NLR or not.
And 1 more thing. I believe their was an issue with me and Foxtrot, where he raided my base, then I came back 3 minutes after, saw him (still) running around inside with a gun, and called the cops to come and arrest/kill this man. Foxtrot claimed this was NLR when he was killed by a cop, though I thought otherwise. Note that I didn't really use past life knowledge, and did wait a while before coming back. From what I understood, Foxtrot was implementing that I could not return there at all until he was gone, but that is not in the MOTD nor part of NLR. Thank you for taking the time to read my comment, and processing it. And if you reply to this....don't maul me with insults and saying--- "well I think thats stupid and you are retarded because you didn't read the fucking MOTD"... one of my first forum posts, and I don't really have: "exceptional" game time. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: ~~RAWR~~ :D :D :D :D :D



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:14 pm 
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When you say changing jobs isant considered NLR, does that include this. There have been sseveral times were say for instance im the Blue Mob Boss, and a blue gangster finds out the code and goes up there and finds illegal weapons. After this there are 2 paths that are followed.

1st- The person will go CP, put a warrent on me, then they punched in the code, and steal the crates.

2nd- Also they'll go red gangster, use the code and steal the crates.



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United States Gunz
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:44 pm 
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No. They're just defecting.

Change your codes often to prevent this.



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Great topic loved reading all the posts. But a big problem I see is. "awh but I was rdmed so I can go back" But after he explains I see he wasn't rdmed. This ruins gameplay because if you think its rdm but no one else does so you break nlr go back and kill someone or lock your doors or stuff like that really ruins the point. I agree with whoever said "If you think you were rdmed alert an admin, and wait for the case to be resolved".


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:44 pm 
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I know I'm digging up a really old post, but I have to disagree with this question's answer:

[quote]Scenario Four
You are a gun dealer. You are selling illegal weapons. You are raided by police, but fend them all off. Less than three minutes later, a group of gangsters raids you. One of the gangsters was a cop in the police raid.
Is this breaking NLR? _[/quote]

This IS breaking NLR. It doesn't matter if he saw or found out about your shops weapons. It doesn't matter if you sent an advert, baited the entire server, ect. If you fended the player off when he was a cp it doesn't matter what class he is, he can't return for 3 minutes. Also the given answer says it's probably common knowledge doesn't make sense. You can't just know someone has shipments.


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United States _Gunz
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:59 pm 
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[quote="blazedd"]This IS breaking NLR. It doesn't matter if he saw or found out about your shops weapons. It doesn't matter if you sent an advert, baited the entire server, ect. If you fended the player off when he was a cp it doesn't matter what class he is, he can't return for 3 minutes.[/quote]

Well, that's your opinion, and I disagree.


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United Kingdom Westi
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:16 pm 
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Gunz, it's not opinion it's fact. The former CP - who died and is now a gangster forgets about the advert, or the CP Raid and cannot return for 3 minutes.


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